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Nerfing wormholes again??? Really CCP?

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Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.13 22:40:00 - [1] Originally by: Mrs Pwnage Originally by: Demon Azrakel Not sure how many people mine in w-space, but, given how rarely we come across them, I think it is rather few. If you are searching for a location to blame an excess of high-end minerals on, check the upper-right-hand corner of the map. I came across an orca and 3x hulks jumping in a WH yesterday. Killed a bunch of cruisers and BS with mining crap fitted at a dead POS about two weeks ago; they do it. It's like everything else in WH's, catching them in the act is the problem. Doubtful. Orcas are not something that you casually take into wormholes to mine with. Orcas you see in holes are there to provide bonuses to mining ops from within the relative safety of pos shields, or to haul large amounts of goods in our out (pos's, arrays, etc.). You can scan an orca nearly instantly with probes, then it's munching time. We've, without exaggerating, never had anyone come in and try to mine a grav site. First, they'd have to find one. Then they'd have to deal with the Sleeper rats. Then they'd have to mine without someone making their ships go Boom. Let's say you did see that... it would be exceedingly rare, and stupid. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.14 00:11:00 - [2] Originally by: Astrid Raholan Originally by: Gidgets Leave W-space alone. It's hard enough living there as it is. If you're living in 'hard' wormhole space (ie: Class 5 or 6) you won't notice any nerfs, it's only the lowest classes that are being looked at for the chop. As for the people saying that there are no ABC minerals coming from wormhole space, if that is true then it won't matter if they're removed then! Now that you'd displayed an incredible ability to portray stupidity at it's finest, let's correct you. There is no problem with ABC ore in wormholes. The majority of is it consumed in hole, thus preventing us from having to rely on null bots for our minerals. Maybe this cuts into 1/1000 of their profits, but too frakking bad. It would make a lot more sense to scale ABC ores in null so that they only show up as you get closer to -1.0. At least... this is about as stupid as taking ABC's out of pure -1.0 space. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.14 11:31:00 - [3] The complete lack of any CCP response is not exactly reassuring. The absolute failure of any null-bunnies being able to make any form of argument in favor of removing ABC from -1.0 space (wormhole space, for those null carebears that don't know that) that even remotely makes sense or reflects on reality speaks volumes as well. C'mon CCP... someone share a thought or two with us on this. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.14 11:42:00 - [4] Originally by: Stosh Redwood I agree with this. Null needs more people. If there are no ABC ores in nothing but null that will change prices and bring people to null sec. Good job CCP Please, close your mouth. You're leaking stupid on the carpet. Removing ABC from wormholes will do nothing to increase the population in Null. Nothing at all. People aren't in wormholes specifically for the ABC, they're in there for the challenge of living somewhere more dangerous than null where the risk/reward factor is much more interesting. ABC ores provide us with necessary resources to maintain our own holes, very rarely are they exported outide the holes. Hell, low end holes already suffer from a basic ore-nerf... no mercoxit. There's also no access to ice fuels at this time in any class of holes. Null life is already too soft. No sense punishing people out for a real challenge in order to buff the null-bots. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.14 15:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe I think this is a good idea, it should be hard to "live" in the WH since it is not supposed for long term living. WH is supposed to be a fast and easy way for casual player to jump in and shoot some sleeper rats with some risk of pvp. now its like 0.0 where a bunch of jerks claim they own the system and camp/farm it 24/7. if they remove ore from low quality WHs then the jerks would move to higher quality or maybe to 0.0 where they belong. so there will be more space for the solo guy which is for the best. Why is it the ones without avatars say the stupidest things? There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.14 15:58:00 - [6] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 14/07/2011 15:39:27 because its the disposable forum posting alt scheduled for deletion for several months, you silly. also, your amount of arguments (zero) shows your post as even stupidER, so again you fail since apparently you DO have an avatar... I've spelled out my arguments in this and the other thread. Try reading. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.14 16:31:00 - [7] Originally by: VaMei Originally by: Ruffio Sepico You do know that a wh system have limited amount of anomalies and sites right? And that the respawn rate is very slow. So camping/farming the same system 24/7 as you so nice put it, would make you very poor in the end. You do know that WHs have links to other WHs right? And that WH corps farm the random connected systems before collapsing the hole and getting another one. Are you actually thinking that's a good method of mining? Raiding a static in an unarmed ship... a static which likely has residents that will "object" to your presence through a hole that has mass limits to raid a site you have to scan down, wait for and kill the rats, then try to gather what resources you can while watching dscan and bumping up against a mass limit, load limit etc. You're bumper sticker argument sounds good, but it betrays a lack of basic understanding on reality. And then come the joys of trying to close a hole with you on the correct side, when the actual mass limit of the hole varies making exact calculations impossible... There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.14 16:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara You do realize that a solo guy can claim a wh, unless some great force really hates you no one will bother to remove you and your pos. You show me a solo guy in a hole and I'll show you someone returning from a trip to empire to find his hole closed behind him, or at best, someone that has his resources drained on a nearly daily basis by people raiding from other holes. If all you have left in your hole is mining and PI, you will eventually fail. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.14 17:00:00 - [9] Originally by: VaMei Zyd, Mega & Morph have been falling ever since the Dom & Apoc expansions gave ABC to the masses. While they're still trending down, you can't see the big fall on the one year graph. Anyone that's new to producing high ends (like in the last 2 years) would cry if they knew what their profits would have looked like 4 years ago. So the mass amounts of minerals being pulled out of null by the mega-alliances and their bot-fleets needs to be dealt with then... not the miniscule (by comparison) amounts of minerals that come from wormhole space. Hell, most minerals never even leave the hole. You mine what you need and do other things. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 03:00:00 - [10] Originally by: Seline Okaski Originally by: Casanunda Edited by: Casanunda on 14/07/2011 17:10:10 Mining in WH space is something most people only do when they need materials for construction. Grav sites are not static unlike kspace belts, they appear rarely. Ore is bulky to store I've seen several small WH POS that consist mainly of corporate hangars just to store ore. Refining nerfs your POS fitting and fuel not to mention the crappy effiency of refining in a POS. Actually, from reading some of the CSM comments, it almost seems like they think we have static belts in WH space, that every scanned belt in every WH has tons of ABC ore to mine and that there are always scanned grav sites popping up like weeds. Blind leading the blind straight to their own ISK accounts, me thinks. Pretty much this. They're used to an endless bot-parade of ores flowing in and think wormholes share that same grotesque luxury. Can you imagine the groans and tears if these clowns actually had to earn their isk? There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 11:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Sinikka Huiputti i dont know if c1 or c2 have high ends but they really shouldn't cos they're like hi sec holes. wh's are not simply 0.0 because they might just have like constant hi sec exits which makes them much more comfortable than real 0.0 where you most likely need to go much deeper to find good hi end mining system. You... you really have no idea what the hell you're talking about, do you. (No, not a question.) Holes with static highs are actually more dangerous than those without due to the ease of access of outsiders coming in looking for kills. Null doesn't have that problem... they're all cozy tucked deep inside alliance space with constant gates, local, etc. keeping constant watch and control over who's in their system. No such luxury in wormholes. At any time, a hole can appear from somewhere else and visitors slip on in to see what's happening. Holes with highs tend to become traffic lanes for "higher" holes looking for access to empire to move materials back and forth as well, further reducing security and "comfort". You have it completely bass-ackwards. Null should have to deal with the issues wormholes would... but then again, they likely couldn't handle it. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 18:43:00 - [12] Still the CSM fails to appear and attempt to justify their basis for wanting ABC nerfed in WHs. Still CCP ignores the topic altogher. Sad. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.15 23:38:00 - [13] Back to the front! There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.20 13:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Zey Nadar Originally by: Sarina Berghil What I don't understand is the reason for removing ABC ores from low-end WHs. What would CCP try to accomplish with that? Putting them in-line with low-end nullsec system? Considering wormholes are even more negative than the best of null space (-1.0 in a hole) that would be pretty damned stupid. Even more so when you consider most C1 and C2 holes with high statics are populated it's clear to anyone with even a hint of knowledge that you simply don't "daytrip" these holes for ore. The losses you'll have in ships will easily out-weigh any mining income using this method. There is no monocle.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.07.27 11:50:00 - [15] Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 27/07/2011 11:51:40 Originally by: Takashi Kaeda W-space mining certainly looks like it could be increasing. I don't think that's what wormholes were intended to be, and CCP is looking into fixing that. If you need a carrier in your C3 you're doing it wrong anyways. Who really gives a fried rat's ass what wormholes were originally intended to be? Was null intended to be run by a few mega-corps controlling massive bot-fleets? Probably not, but it is what it is. Wormholes have evolved into their own meta-game now. They're the frontier of Eve, and that frontier is being colonized. It's time to stop trying to crush the colonies and accept that something perhaps unintended but definitely wonderful and a benefit to the game as a whole has happened. Let the null-bunnies keep their local, their fleet protected asteroid belts and mega-bot operations. Fine, we don't give a spare **. But nerfing our frontier so those mega-alliances can be granted complete control of an entire resource? It's simple. If they want full control of ABC ores then it's time they let their balls drop and move into wormholes and stake their claims. They will find Anoikis does not approve. There is no monocle.**
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.02 17:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Mr Kidd Lets assume I know what I'm doing, Mmmkay? Yes, you get a new static, to a completely new place with new people who presumably haven't had the opportunity to probe out your system in it's entirety. In any case, someone from your side has to warp to your new static in order for it to OPEN. Learn how to manage your wh's, alright? Therefore, you can probe out your new static, NOT warp to it and it doesn't open. And yes I realize someone else can open a hole to your system come in and do the same but you're going to see their probes on your dscan while you're mining your ore. See, it's almost completely safe. Please forgive me if I don't go through every possible scenario of why it is/isn't. If you really want to live life on the edge learn how to tell how close their probes are to you before they can pinpoint your location. That's always fun for a few prober tears. I'll grant you that you sound like you know what you're doing as a resident. It is somewhat possible to mine in wormholes almost as safely as the null-bots do. However, that's not the issue in question... there's the false claim that non-residents are going into wormholes, mining and leaving with these vast deposits of ore that are changing the market. You and I both know that's a load of crap. You don't go into someone else's hole and expect to mine in anything even remotely resembling safety. Besides... how much ore is in holes in the first place? I haven't seen a grav spawn in over a week now. Null-bunnies have it easy and want it easier. It ain't right. There is no monocle.

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